Interview with Marist Alum Heather Brody

I interviewed Marist College ’22 alum Heather Brody and we discussed, among other things, post-graduate life, job searching, and how the COVID-19 pandemic affected our college careers and graduate plans.

The following transcription of the interview has been edited for length and clarity

The interview was completed via video call.

Contact info for Heather

Monique Barrow: What was your major?

Heather Brody: I double majored in English/Writing and Fine Arts. My main focus in Fine Arts was painting.

Monique: Why did you decide to pursue it?

Heather: I was undecided until the end of freshmen year when I decided to pursue writing and art as I was passionate about both.

Monique: I think you said it, but technically, did you change your major anytime during your college career?

Heather: Yeah, I just declared my major in my second semester of freshman year. I declared both of them, and that was it. I never changed it after that.

Monique: According to a recent article that I read, some of the “worst” college majors to pursue were associated with liberal arts due to not having the best career turns. What are your thoughts on this? Link

Heather: I feel like this is very common, like many people think, and I feel like I've been faced with a lot of that throughout college, especially now, like I'm still searching for a job and everything. I feel like, I don't know, I 100% disagree because there are people who have liberal art degrees that go on and are very successful. I think that for anyone going into college, if you're planning on getting a liberal arts degree, you're just going to have to put in a lot more effort because I feel like it is a pretty common degree for people to get. I feel like a lot of people go into liberal arts just cause it's so broad. You could do so many things within liberal arts. But because of that, once you get out of college and you're searching for a job and everything, you'll have a lot more people to compete against to get those jobs. So I just think that there's nothing wrong with getting a liberal arts degree, you can be very successful with a liberal arts degree. I think you'll have to work a lot harder to make yourself stand out against those other candidates, like getting more internships and doing a lot more stuff on your own time to build up your experience and your resume. So yeah, I don't know 100% agree with that. I just think looking at it from the outside, like not being in it, I can see how it would look like that. But I think like as someone who was like within that and like seeing other people like. Be very successful. I don't 100% agree.

Monique: Yeah, and I was talking about this with Nicole yesterday. She felt it was more based on salary. She was also telling me that a lot of colleges are starting to cut the liberal arts program and degrees. We were both concerned about that because you know what's gonna happen?

Heather: Yeah, I think that's awful just because, like, that limits people so much to what they want to do, you know.

Monique: I don't know. We'll see. I don't think Marist ever cut any programs from that, but we'll see.

Heather: Yeah, I think Marist is mostly like liberal arts, so if that would be difficult for them.

Monique: Yeah, so hopefully, that doesn't happen. / Did anyone question you on pursuing a degree in liberal arts? If so, why?

Heather: I didn't get many questions on the liberal arts degree. I guess it was more like the specific majors that I chose just because English, Writing, and Art usually don't lead to very practical careers. You know, my family had a lot to say when I did that freshman year. But other than that, I chose Marist because it was a liberal arts school, and my parents were fully supportive of that and everything.

Monique: Ok, that’s good. / Did you take any internships or jobs during your college career? Were they related to what you wanted to pursue after college?

Heather: I did have a few jobs during college, but they were just like to make money while I was in school. I did do one internship, but I felt very limited in my internship opportunities cause I started an internship sophomore year or maybe the beginning of junior year, which was when COVID was happening. So I had to do a remote internship and everything. I did get that internship experience, but it was like I didn't get the experience of going to the office and working at a desk and being in that environment and everything. I worked as an assistant editor for a company called The Art of Living Prima Media. They publish cookbooks and have a travel and lifestyle blog. So that was really interesting getting editor experience because I wanted at the time to go into publishing, and I figured an editor position would be what I wanted to do or what I would be best at. I did learn a lot from that internship about publishing and stuff like that, but the one thing I learned was that I did not want to work for a company that published cookbooks.

Monique: You know, well, there you go, you learned something!

Heather: Yeah, it was a very weird experience editing cookbooks and recipes and blog posts about food people tried in Italy and stuff, it was interesting.

Monique: Yeah, I feel like I would just get angry 'cause I'd be hungry now. I can't eat anything! So that's interesting. That's cool. / Did you reach out to Career Center for assistance with internships or job opportunities after college? How did they assist if so?

Heather: I did reach out to them once or twice. I think just to get I sent them my resume and cover letters to get help on that. They helped me clean up my resume and make it a lot more professional, and I asked for advice on finding jobs and things like that and they gave me a lot of great resources. There's one portal where you can meet with, like, other Mars graduates for, like, years and years in the past. You can talk to them about their careers and try to get connections that way. And then they also just gave me a lot of job portals, like Indeed and stuff like that to find jobs specifically in the areas I was looking for, so that helped a lot.

Monique: Did any professors assist you with post-graduate plans?

Heather: Yes, I did. After working at the art studio, I decided that instead of publishing, I wanted to go into teaching and be an art teacher. So I decided while working there to apply to Graduate School to get my teaching certification and everything. So I had one of my art professors, Professor Smith, who was my printmaking professor; he was the one, before graduation, who told me I should do teaching and told me about this program at NYU. And so he helped me a lot, like, with my application, and he, like, wrote a fantastic letter of recommendation for me. So that helped me get into the program. So I had much help from him.

Monique: OK. Are you still in school?

Heather: I'm going in the fall. I applied this past winter for the fall semester.

Monique: That's cool. How long is the program?

Heather: It's just one year. It's like an accelerated program.

Monique: So, what is your current job position?

Heather: Right now, I’m just looking for a new job because I worked at an art studio job for like six months or so after graduation. It’s a very small studio, and I was kind of still like the new guy. And so when school started picking up, I got fewer shifts, and it just slowly died out because they didn't need me as much because it was like a full-day program. It was just after school program. So right now, I'm still looking for a new job, but I work as a freelance artist, and I work on my writing on my own time to try to get published. I want to be a writer on the side as I'm teaching, so I'm still working. on all of that too.

Monique: If there was one thing that you could change from your college career, what would it be and why?

Heather: I think what I said before. I was so limited when it came to internships and stuff because of COVID, but I would have tried harder to get more internships cause I know it would have been possible. Because of COVID and what everyone was going through, I kind of felt like I couldn’t do it. But I think I could have definitely tried harder to get more internships because a lot of the jobs that I'm trying to apply to it's like entry-level, and they want the experience.

Monique: OK, so I was talking about this with Nicole. You could still have those internships, but even then, it's like they don't sometimes count that they want “real” experience, and I'm like, how? I just graduated!

Heather: Right, like, why are they listing themselves as entry-level jobs when they want experience? Clearly, I'm applying to entry-level jobs because I'm entry-level. I just graduated college.

Monique: It’s so annoying. It's like three-five years of experience. But I just graduated!

Heather: I know, I know.

Monique: Yeah, I mean, like the limited internships, that's was out of your, I mean, everybody's control just because of COVID.

Heather: I know that’s why the job search has been so hard to like. So many people are now trying to find jobs post-COVID that it's made it so much more difficult to get one cause, like, every job I apply to, it's like 1000 plus applicants, and I'm like, “I'm not gonna get it!”

Monique: I heard something like if you're not the first twenty or whatever, they don't even bother to look anymore. I'm like, “So then just close the application!”

Heather: Right, like, I'm not even going to apply to that.

Monique: Well, the job search is absolutely horrendous.

Heather: It's horrible and I know a lot of people are having the same problems. It’s hard to see because, on LinkedIn, you only see the people who, like, do have the jobs that are posting, like the new position I got and stuff. But, like so many people from our class that are struggling right now.

Monique: I was reading about how they said it's a good job market when we graduated, and I’m like, for who?

Heather: I went into it with such bad thinking like, “Oh, I'm gonna get a job right away,” because everyone kept telling me it would be so easy to get a job. Yeah, because they were, like, “Everyone's retiring after COVID,” There will be so many positions opening up, and I was like, "There are so many people looking for jobs!”

Monique: The people who retired are coming back because everything's gone up. So we're all looking for something and becoming more competitive. Yeah, I don't know, but it's just frustrating. I don't know what the bright side is. I guess keep trying. / Do you have any advice for the Class of 2023?

Heather: I guess the only advice I could give is that I feel I started my job search a little late. I started right around graduation. If I did it again, I probably would have started in January, searching and trying to work on my resume. So if any of them haven't started yet I would start immediately. Get in contact with Career Services and take advantage of everything that they provide you. It also helps to talk to your professors and get advice from them. They've done all of this before; I remember talking to my art professors a lot about the positions that I could get even in writing and stuff. They would help me figure out things that I could do because, for a while, I felt very stuck on whether I should go into publishing. Is that the only thing I'm going to be able to do and stuff like that. So even just talking to your professors, I think, helps, but, you know, get the ball rolling as fast as you can because you know, the earlier you start, I think, the more success you'll happen finding a job.

Monique: Yeah, ok. And would you ever consider going back to publishing?

Heather: I think in the future. I don't know. I want to do my writing on the side and get published. But if I get my foot in the door and get published and see what it's like from that perspective, maybe in the future. I would consider switching and going back to publishing. But right now, teaching is what's the best path for me. I think I'm good at it and will like it. I love art, and it also gives me the time to do my stuff on the side. So I think that's the best path for me, right now at least.

Monique: Ok, that's good. Do you have any advice for the Class of 2022?

Heather: Just what we were saying before. The Class of 2022 was just like hit so hard by many things. First, the pandemic, and now we're having the aftermath of everything from the pandemic, trying to find jobs and stuff. So I feel the only advice I could give is to keep trying. If you're feeling stuck, reach out to professors you had for help. Also, taking a job that you’re not thrilled about, to get that experience that all the jobs want you to have that could help you down the road. So I think even just settling for a position that you know you're not super psyched to have could better your future and make it easier for you to get a better job later on.

Monique: Where do you see yourself a year from now?

Heather: Hopefully, teaching, and I would like to teach in high school. Before doing any student teaching, I think I would be the most comfortable and have the most fun in my job in a high school just because of the job that I had at the art studio. I worked with kindergarten through 6th grade, and it was fun; I liked hanging out with the kids and teaching them art. It was very challenging because it was like learning something I've been doing my whole life, like from the beginning again, almost trying to teach it to someone else. But so tiring with those little kids. So I think I would be happier with more chilled-out high school students, even if they don't care about art. So hopefully, I’ll be in a high school classroom teaching art in a year.

Monique: Cool. Was there one class that you feel better helped you with post-graduate plans?

Heather: What made me start to think about teaching art was probably my capping class my senior year. I took that the last semester where we did presentations in class that were all about art. Most of it was about our artwork and explaining it to the classroom. That's when my professor, who was also Edward Smith for that class too, told me that you have to be a teacher like this is the program for you. I feel that definitely changed my thinking because up until that point, all four years, I'm going to go into publishing like this is what I'm supposed to do. I guess in the writing sense definitely think improved my writing the most for like postgraduate stuff was like I hated taking this class at the time, but Grammar, Style, and Editing style. I needed to take that class, but I definitely learned the most from that class, and my writing improved greatly. Also, fiction workshop improved my writing a ton because of the peer critiques, where everyone sits in a circle and rips apart each other’s writing.

Monique: Are you enjoying the post graduate life? Have you missed college?

Heather: I think I miss the social aspect the most. I miss having a schedule and sticking to it and having more of a structured lifestyle because now I'm responsible for ensuring tasks are being completed every day, and sometimes I don't stick to that. You know, like a year of trying to keep myself on that schedule. But I miss that structured life and doing something more productive than I feel now. But mostly, it's the social aspect cause a lot of my friends from college whom I lived with and am close with live very far away. So we only see like I've seen them maybe twice since graduation. And it's always like a big deal to go and see each other. Because, like some of them, like I, you have to fly to see them, and so we have to plan big trips to see each other. So that’s the thing I missed the most.

Monique: OK. Yeah, I miss the structured life, too, because I feel like you have that schedule, and now it doesn't help because I’m still job searching. So like, I wake up thinking, “What do I have to do today?” / I've seen in the news recently how, obviously, college is expensive and everything, and you now see more job ads saying you don't have to have a degree; you need the skills and experiences. So I think if you see that kind of thing, does it make you have second thoughts about your college career or not?

Heather: My family keeps telling me there are these jobs you can get that you don't even need a degree for; why don't you take one of those in the meantime? It kind of makes me sad because I'm like, why did I go to college for four years if all these people are just telling me to get these jobs I didn't even need my degree for anyway. So I do definitely feel that way when I hear that, and I feel that's one of the reasons, and I hate saying this like I have too much pride, to take one of those jobs that I don't need a degree for just because I spent four years taking these classes to get this degree. So I want to use it, but I hate saying I won’t take one of those jobs because I don't want to sound like, oh, I'm too good for those jobs. It's just that I worked so hard for this degree that I have, but I don't want to take a job that doesn't require it.

Monique: No, no, I agree because I'm like, you know, I spent four years doing this. So I don't want to, you know, obviously, nobody does, but you know, to survive and get some experience like you have to. But it is defeating because it's like I spend four years. / Ok, we talked about this but has the COVID-19 pandemic changed your postgraduate plans anyway?

Heather: Just like what we said about job hunting. I think it's a lot worse than it used to be, and I didn't get many opportunities with jobs and internships, but also just the opportunities to grow as a more independent person. I didn't get to study abroad and like, you know, stuff like that, a lot of things were taken from us. And I feel like that whole semester we all spent at home really set us back in our development as young adults. We were taken from this environment where we were treated, you know, as adults and as like independent people at school, living on our own, and then sent right back home for an entire semester almost, you know, for like so many months. So I feel, at least for me, I regressed to like my parents are taking care of me, and I kind can’t take care of myself anymore; then going back to school after that was like really hard, you know, and I kind of almost felt like freshman year again like I was doing it all over again. So I feel I definitely got set back mentally and like my independence and my confidence too because I feel like those years that the pandemic impacted us in college were the years that you do the most growing in. So I do think it impacted me.

Monique: Yeah, I understand. It's frustrating. / Do you have anything you like to add for the Class of 2022 or 2023?

Heather: I think one thing I would add is don't be afraid to research companies that you're interested in and send emails and ask about jobs and if they have any openings or know any other companies or places that are hiring and things like that. I think in the beginning, a lot of people told me to ask around and make these connections and I was too scared because it was very intimidating, like emailing this whole company and asking about jobs. But honestly, I've had the most success, I think, like job hunting through that; that’s how I got my job at the art studio was sending emails out to local art studios and sending emails to publishing companies in the city and asking them about how and they would give me resources like of how to find jobs and things like that. So I feel like the only thing I have to add is don't be afraid to send out some cold emails.

Monique: So yeah, I think that's it with all of the questions that I had. Thank you for your time!