Interview with Marist Alum D'Avion Middleton

I interviewed Marist College ’22 alum D'Avion Middleton and we discussed, among other things, post-graduate life, job searching, and how the COVID-19 pandemic affected our college careers and graduate plans.

The transcription of the interview has been edited for length and clarity.

The interview was completed via video call.

Contact information for D'Avion

Monique Barrow: What was your major?

D'Avion Middleton: I majored in English and Film & Television. I was a double major.

Monique: Why did you decide to pursue it?

D'Avion: At first, I was an English major, and then I kind of got into film the more I went through college. So I think my second semester of freshman year, I decided to pick up a second major.

Monique: Was there a film, or did you take a certain class that you decided to do film?

D'Avion: Yeah, I think I took a creative writing class, and for that, I had to write an actual script for a show when I was like this is a lot of fun. I really like TV and movies. Maybe I should major in that too. So I did.

Monique: I guess you technically answered it, but did you change your major at any time during your college career?

D'Avion: So when I first came into college, I came in as an English major and minored in journalism. I took two or three journalism classes, and when I decided to pick up a second major, I said I can't do two majors and a minor because that is crazy. So I dropped that and just stuck with the two. But my journalism professors were nice when I said I couldn’t do this anymore because it was four weeks into the semester.

Monique: According to a recent article that I read, some of the “worst” college majors to pursue were associated with liberal arts due to not having the best career turns. What are your thoughts on this? Link

D'Avion: I think that liberal arts has been put into this box of “Oh, you're creative, and that means that you're not going to get a job. No one wants to employ you because they think you don't know businesses, science, or other fields either.” I think it's just a matter of what you do with your liberal arts major degree that changes employers’ perspectives. You have to do more because you have to show that just because I was in English doesn't mean that I don't know how to like file tax papers or help with anything, pretty much anything else that you would have o do on a day-to-day basis.

Monique: Yeah, I agree. Did anyone question you on pursuing a degree in liberal arts? If so, why?

D'Avion: No, I don't think so. My family was sure because I was like the book nerd, and they expected me to be an English major already. So they kind of were questioning when I picked up a film major. They were kind of like, “Oh, where did this come from?” “Like, how much do you know?” But they were supportive in general for the most part. It mostly after is when they were like, “Ok, what are you going to do now?” You know?

Monique: Ok, that’s good. I was originally a bio major because I wanted to attend medical school. Then after taking chemistry, it just absolutely destroyed me. So I said I can't do this.

D'Avion: I know bio majors, and they love it, but it takes a lot to love it.

Monique: Yeah. / Did you take any internships or jobs during your college career? Were they related to what you wanted to pursue after college?

D'Avion: I didn't take any internships but had three different jobs during college. During freshman year, I was one of those tour room people where you come into the room and tell you about the school and room. Then also, during freshman year, I worked for the Marist Circle for a couple of months, but then I dropped my journalism minor and that whole case. Later on, I worked as an office assistant for HR from 2019 till graduation, and that was good. I wanted that office experience because many jobs already expect you to have that. I didn't have that before, as I worked at home at a kid’s place. I was always working with kids, so I would never have that professional, administrative office experience. Oh wait, I had four jobs. Later on, I was a writing center tutor at the same time, and then in my last six months of college, I was also a features writer. So I was an HR assistant, writing tutor, and a features writer all at the same time. Please don’t ask me why I did that. It was insane. All three attributed to what I wanted to do because I wanted to experience different things. Being a tutor made it easier to collaborate and write with others because it's hard not to say exactly what you want. It's not sugarcoating per se; it’s more like learning that you have to be gentler with some people because either they don't know or they just can't handle the fact that somebody is trying to tell them what to do. It’s the same thing with working in HR. I worked with people of all ages from college to, and I think the oldest person I worked with was an eighty-year-old professor. So that was nice. And then features writing just gave me the journalism experience I wanted. They gave me a reason to write every week. I've since left that job because it was a lot of work for little pay.

Monique: Yeah, yeah. I was looking at Screen Rant, and it's like they want like twenty-five articles a month, and that's a lot. And then the pay is not great. So yeah. / Did you reach out to Career Center for assistance with internships or job opportunities after college? How did they assist if so?

D'Avion: I didn't because I looked on Fox Quest a couple of times just because I get random update emails like “check these jobs out.” There's never really jobs that I want because there are not a lot of liberal arts jobs from Fox Quest in the Career Center, and if there are, they're like internships, or they're like something within the school or something near the school. I’m two hours away from the school, so I'm like, yeah, I won't be commuting to that job or internship for $5 - $10 an hour.

Monique: Did you ever reach out to them for resume help or anything like that or no?

D'Avion: Resume help when I was in school, not after, because I had my resume, and I knew the format and how to set it up. So when I had a new job, I knew I'd had it on myself because they did help me a couple of years ago.

Monique: Did any professors assist you with post-graduate plans?

D'Avion: No, but that's partly on me. I keep telling myself I have to E-mail those professors and tell them and connect with them, but if I were to reach out to them, they would. So it’s just for whatever reason, it keeps getting away from me.

Monique: OK. Because I keep thinking maybe I should, I just honestly don't know what I would say in the e-mail.

D'Avion: Yeah, I think it’s just an update like, “This what I'm doing?” “How are you” kind of thing. So I keep telling myself on my To Do List for the past month, like e-mailing your professors, and I'm going to do it.

Monique: What is your current job position?

D'Avion: My current job position is as a Production Assistant for a tiny production company based in New Jersey called Gold Rush Film. There’s a lot of waiting around right now because of scheduling and things like that, but I like it a lot. It's giving me a reason to be on a film set. I'm also freelancing in pretty much everything. I've done graphic design, copywriting, and editing. I still edit college papers for my friends that are in school. I did a little bit of tutoring right before I left as well. But right now, it's really whatever freelance work I can get and Production Assistant.

Monique: Ok. So as a Production Assistant, do you work on scripts?

D'Avion: Basically, it just depends on my company. I'm the only production assistant because we're so small, so I help with pre-production, production, and post-production. For pre-production, I'm sending out schedules and scripts and things like that. Make sure everybody knows that I'm the number one point of communication so they're not bothering my producer or director for little things such as the time of this meeting. On set, I'm keeping the schedule. I'm the person who uses the little clapboard and starts the scene. I make run errands things, and I've helped with wardrobe, makeup, and sets. I'm an extra set of hands, telling people what to do and where to go. I usually have to know everything, so I'm the person with all the answers. I’m doing post-production right now for a friend; I’m just doing their social media for them, so there's a lot of social media. There are many meetings. They're setting up like whom we're sending the film to, what festival. Things like that.

Monique: How many hours do you work? That sounds like a lot!

D'Avion: No, it actually works out because when I'm not on set, I can work from home. So if I'm on set for two or three days a week, I work from home the whole week. I'm just sending emails out and just doing other things. So I think I work maybe 20-25 hours a week, and then if you add on set times and you're there for 12 hours, of course, there's you're going to get your 40, but it really just depends on how much work I have to do that week. Like this week, I think it's like 12 hours, I'll be working, and then I’m back on set the next couple weeks. So it's like 8 hours a day, at least 8 to 12 hours a day. Just long days. But, like, I have my breaks.

Monique: Ok, so it just depends.

D'Avion: So I have to wait for a script, then send the notes to certain people. I have to send different versions of scripts out. So I just get a task list at the top of the week and decide my days because my director doesn't usually need it until a Thursday or Friday, or if he has a deadline, he'll let me know.

Monique: OK. Is there a certain genre of films that are being produced, or is it just like anything?

D'Avion: We're open to anything. Right now we're doing an action film, and our next film is drama. Well, it’s action and drama, but more on the drama side. It's pretty fun.

Monique: Ok, that's cool. / If there's one thing you could change from your college career, what would it be and why?

D'Avion: I think making more connections because you don't really realize people went to Marist or not until you're out. That would have been good and helpful for right now. I think I spent a good amount of time doing what I wanted and all that, but that would have been good.

Monique: Do you feel that COVID messed that up as well?

D'Avion: Maybe a little bit, but not too much, like to the point where I couldn't pick up the slack.

Monique: I feel like COVID screwed me over because when I went to Marist, I transferred, but during the semester when COVID was starting to happen. So I spent seven weeks on campus, and then we had to shut down. So then I spent the whole year remote, and then by the time I returned to campus, I was like, well, I'm kind of already done. It’s ok. I’m doing what I can now, so it's fine. / Do you have any advice for the Class of 2023?

D'Avion: Oh gosh, use your social media; that’s a big help. People don't realize that a lot of work now is on social media. After I graduated, I didn't realize I should be more active on social media because right now, my Instagram has become a work and social platform. I follow many people I've worked with or want to work with on social media, and it’s just become a way to have an in. You know, like, “Oh, I follow you on this, this, and this.” “Ohh, I've seen your post. I've seen your work through your Instagram.” You don't have to make everything public like I have my private pages. You can set those platforms up for business and for things you can use to pursue special projects. Especially liberal arts majors, because I a lot of the time people are expecting a portfolio, and if you're an artist, a writer, or a photographer, social media is the best way to go because you can always have those posts of like “Oh check this out.” “Look at this.” Even LinkedIn is technically social media, so keeping that up to date, which I don't do as much as I should, is pretty important because people you've worked with, professionals you want to see and think would like to see you. So what you do, it's important to say, “Oh yeah, I'm here” because many people right now are looking to social media to find, you know, who's even important enough to say, “Oh, I want them there because I know they have people they have, like, good things that they're backing.” If you're an activist, things like that. It's just important to show your face.

Monique: Yeah. / Do you have any advice for the Class of 2022?

D'Avion: Keep going. We had a weird four years. After our sophomore year was taken from us, basically the whole thing. It was a lot getting back. People expected you to bounce back, but like when you graduated, you were technically a junior. You didn't have that full year, so if you're still not doing what you want to be doing in a year, remember you're young, and you're not even really done if you're still in that college mindset. So many people are getting little jobs; I had little jobs for so long. Right now, it's still pretty small. So honestly, if you know what you want, keep going; if you don't, then you have time to figure it out. That's another problem with social media; people see that others are doing so well taking all these trips, doing all these things. But that's not the truth for everybody. It's not the end of the world, just because I see a lot of people. Doing so many amazing things my age, I shouldn't look at them and say, " Oh well, I should be doing that, and I'm failing because I'm not. As long as you're still willing to keep to like to go and continue your journey, you're not failing at anything.

Monique: I try to not go on LinkedIn that much because every time I see someone job hop, like it's that easy. I’m like, “I can't get a job.” It’s a lot.

D'Avion: Yeah, it's a lot. It's overwhelming sometimes.

Monique: Where do you see yourself a year from now? In the same position?

D'Avion: Yes, but I do hope that, even though I would love to stick with this company, I would like to work at a bigger company only because this gives me a good footing for the ins and outs of a production assistant on a formal basis. Before I was freelancing as a PA, so I work on short films, commercials, etc. But this is giving me long-term projects, which is good. So it's just a matter of waiting and saying, well, I know this is what I want to do. But I also want to write my movies, TV shows, and books, so I would like to keep pursuing my two career paths simultaneously. But I wouldn't mind being a PA a year from now; that’s OK.

Monique: So I guess the ultimate goal, if there is one, is to be like a director or a screenwriter?

D'Avion: Yeah, screenwriter. Director would be nice, but I would love to be a screenwriter. But, like, I'm fine with somebody else directing it.

Monique: Ok. / Was there one class that you feel better helped you with your post-graduate plans?

D'Avion: Because of what I’m doing, I think I took my collaborative writing class in junior year. It was really helpful because it was a class, and we were all in the same major but didn’t know each other well. So it was easy to communicate with like-minded people, but also there were people taking that class as an elective. So it was like learning other people and what they did, what they liked, how they wrote time frames. So that helped me figure out better how to work with people in and out of my field in something I was well versed in.

And pretty much any literature class because you only realize how many literature references people make in everyday life once you're out of college, and it's no longer a joke like they literally mean it. People have referenced Chaucer and stuff around me, and I'm like, well, that's perfect; I know everything about Chaucer; I was there. Shakespeare gets referenced a lot. Any of the epics get referenced as well. Dante's Inferno. It’s weird because you don't think that's what you're taking away from a literature class; you think you're taking away intellectual jokes, which is weird, but it gets you farther because people around you are so intelligent, and you're like, well, I know exactly what you're talking about, you know. So, strangely enough, that helped. My advanced screenwriting class helped because I know how to edit a script. I know the ins and outs of writing a script because it was two years of that, two semesters of that. Video editing classes, grammar style editing, and anything to do with writing. It was a lot that helped me in my specific career that I knew I had to take because it would help me. As far as getting a job and showing people like, oh, I've taken a whole semester’s worth of information on that, it makes it easier because they don't have to train me and things like that like. Copywriting stuff, I took seven editing classes; I promise you I know how to copywrite and edit. I think that's pretty much it. I think I'm reading the apocalypse class in my freshman year. If that ever comes true, then I'm good. You know, I did that for a whole semester. I took a Reading the Apocalypse class my freshman year. If that ever comes true, then I'm good. I did that for a whole semester.

Monique: What did you do in the class?

D'Avion: I had Dr. Grinnell, and we read apocalypse books and watched apocalypse movies just to get a sense of how people write about it. It is not like an apocalypse as in dystopian like Hunger Games or anything like that. We focused on natural disasters, zombies, and things like that. It was a good mindset to keep because people were writing about this for way longer than we’d realized. One of our oldest books was Margaret Atwood from like the 90s, I think. But it was interesting that people have been concerned about this for quite some time. I liked that class a lot. Creative Writing helped me because you had to do six or seven different kinds of writing within a semester. Just being able to switch from one mindset to another made it super easy. I never thought about that, but it was actually super helpful.

Monique: Are you enjoying post-graduate life? Have you missed college?

D'Avion: Oh gosh, I don't think so. I think because I had two majors, I had my time to have fun, but there was always a lot of work to do, especially with one of my majors being writing and writing scripts every semester. So there was a lot of, “What's next?” you know. I've mapped out my weeks before intensely, like, down to the hour. But now it's like, OK, I can map out my week and have time to rest. Time to actually sit down and learn a skill; I learned how to embroider. I have time to pick up a hobby. So I don't miss college. I keep in touch with almost everybody that I stayed with. But honestly, no. I know some people say “Oh, I want to go back” but I don't. If I want to go back to school to get a master’s or a PhD, I would only do it through my company or something, you know. I'm in no rush to go back to school, but I would like to.

Monique: OK, because that is the next question.

D'Avion: Oh, OK, perfect. I would get my master’s and Ph.D. because I think, like, just learning more about the field you're in is amazing. So if I could, I would do it like remotely, part-time, late classes, or something like that; I'm taking my time with that. Some people are, “Oh, I want to go get my master’s right after because I'm in this school mindset” but part of school is like getting in and out of a. mindset of learning. You realize that when you're out, you never have to stop learning on your own, and I think people, when they leave, are still ready to stop learning new things. I was never like that. I always had a reason to pick up a book, a skill, or something like that. Especially with TikTok, there's always something new to learn, and I think the mindset of, “Oh, I don't want to learn anymore, so I'm not going back to school” is kind of messed up. I think everybody should always learn something new all the time.

Monique: Yeah, I always think I want to go to get my master’s and everything. But absolutely not after I got my Bachelor’s. I need time to breathe. And especially because of the gap we had with COVID, I need like a year or so.

D'Avion: COVID made it harder because professors are like, “Oh, everything is online, everything is so much easier.” but not when you're writing 60 pages as an English major, that's not doesn't make it easier. It makes it harder because now you're in a box writing instead of in nature with others around you writing; sometimes that makes it harder. But really, it's just a matter of whether can you flip the switch between learning and not learning and learning and working and things like that. And some people can, and some can't. So do whatever is easiest for you.

Monique: Do you regret college? The only reason I ask is that recently in the news, there's this whole thing about how you don't need a college degree to get a job or that many companies are dropping the college degree requirement. Does it make you kind of have second thoughts when you see that one?

D'Avion: No, I don't regret it because I feel like that was an achievement that I had to go through. I know people who have great jobs with no college degree, but I felt like for me, and what I wanted to do, part of that was proving that was getting a college degree and saying this was my field. I studied this for four years, and you won’t tell me I can't do this. It was a matter of how I could do it. I was my parent’s first child to graduate college fully because my brother graduated a week after me, so it was just a matter of saying I can do this, and I know my parents really wanted it for me, but also, I wanted it for myself. I wanted to have that independence #1 going to school away from them, and I wanted to say I did my college time. There's no reason for you to take this away from me because I know what I'm doing because I'm an expert. I see that now with my job because I'm reading scripts and stuff, and I can tell who has formal training and who doesn't, who picked this up as a hobby. So it makes a difference in a field like film because there are people who don't know what's going on sometimes, and it's a matter of them either not paying attention to school or not taking the time to learn properly. So I think having just that under my belt of having a film or English degree, I know what I'm talking about. It makes me feel more comfortable in a professional setting because nobody's second-guessing me, and I'm not second-guessing myself because I know what I'm doing.

Monique: Yeah, I agree. Because when I see that, I’m like, “Oh, I don't need a college degree now. Thanks.”

D'Avion: Yeah, I think everybody should get a degree, but everyone has their reasons. College is a rip-off; yes, of course, it's way, way too expensive. Funnily enough, I found my mom's old tuition slip from her college days; her tuition for a semester was about $1900, a little under $2000. Yeah, tuition, room, and board fee. It was like $2000 for her to go to college.

Monique: I'm sorry. You mean two comma 000?

D'Avion: Yeah, but I feel like having a degree just makes your life a little easier because even though you don't necessarily need it and college is a rip-off, having it just gives you a nice safety net.

Monique: Yeah, and you know, obviously, even with certain jobs, you don't maybe need it, but you can probably negotiate better pay or position with that cause, like yeah, I went through four years of doing this. So yeah, I understand it from a certain point because college is expensive, and not every job you want will need it. But I’m happy with my degree.

D'Avion: They are looking at people with degrees first.

Monique: Yeah. / A couple of more questions. What job seeking or freelance tips do you have to offer?

D'Avion: Oh my gosh, get on as many websites as possible. I'm on Backstage, LinkedIn. I was on Fiverr, but it is a bit of a scam, so that's not worth it unless you're doing that full-time, all the time. Get on as many job websites as you can. If you're a freelancer, mostly because I found a job because I was on those websites, they found me, so it's a matter of just putting yourself out there as much as possible. Getting a freelance job sounds easy in theory, and then people say, “Oh, what did you do?” And have a portfolio because that's a big deal. Right now I'm redoing my whole website because I'm like, “This doesn't look professional enough,” and many people I know have very professional portfolios for me. If you're a creative, get a logo because that's something to stamp on everything. I have a logo, but it's something super old, but it works for me. Keep your stuff as updated as possible, especially if you're freelancing. Just because people will be like, “Well, you did this in 2019, how do I know you could do this again” or “How do I know it's even better now,” you know.

Monique: Do you recommend those freelancing websites like Fiverr, which I don’t like, or Upwork, like those big ones?

D'Avion: Yeah, vet them, mostly because I recommend them because they're good to have. I think I got like Four different jobs just on Backstage for PA. So really, just know who you're giving your money to the subscription. Just be on the lookout for scams because there are a lot of scams. It's a matter of your discernment, and everything's online now. Google people whose names you don't know. If an e-mail looks a little weird, Google that. I’m big on just making sure people are who they say they are. You're giving out your information, phone number, bank account, or your PayPal account. So do your due diligence, you know.

Monique: OK. / Has the COVID-19 pandemic changed your post-graduate plans in anyway?

D'Avion: Yes, a lot of internships were either 100 times smaller or they're completely gone. The Disney internship is something that I was looking at for a while, but because of COVID, they shrunk it significantly. I don't know the numbers, but the same happened with Sundance. They did have an internship, then COVID happened, and then they shut the whole thing down for a couple of years. So I was going to take more internships, and that would have made my resume sound and look better for right now. It was pretty bad for me because everything I wanted to do was in person, and suddenly, I couldn't be in person. You couldn't be on a set in a meeting room; you couldn't really do anything. So it was just a standstill because I got to do less than I wanted.

Monique: This feeds into my last question. In the news, many have said the job market is great, and it should be easy to find a job. Do you agree or have you found it difficult?

D'Avion: It's so hard finding a job right now. I'm still looking for a 9-5, just something to do only on weekdays and when I'm not working on set. But I also read an article that said, yeah, people are lying about having job openings to boost their employment numbers and make it look like they’re a thriving company, especially the big companies. They say, “Oh yeah, we have all these job offers,” and then you don't hear back from them. That's because there was never a job there. It's pretty bad because people are definitely lying about their job openings, and it's really hard to find not even something that suits you but something in general that will say like, oh, I think you're good enough for this job; I’m going to hire you, you know.

Monique: Yeah, yeah. No, no, I agree. And I think we might have read the same article. Was it from The Wall Street Journal? Yeah, I read that. I was like, “Oh, that explains why I never hear back from some job offers.” And like it's a miracle if I even get a response back. Because I applied for some of these jobs months ago, and I'm like, I guess at this point, I didn't get it. But now I'm like, “Oh, maybe nobody got it because you put it there for that purpose?” I'm still waiting for Adobe, and that was almost a year ago.

D'Avion: Yeah, some people don't even see the reason to get back, which is not fair. You know people who spend time applying, especially if they ask for a cover letter or something.

Monique: And you can have the automated notes of who's accepted or rejected, right? Like even a simple note: “Thank you again for applying, you know, looking through it.” All that stuff can make a difference. When we were graduating, they said the job market is great, and now they're like, for 2023, it’s not.

D'Avion: And everybody is downsizing, you know, because of COVID. So they’re like, and we don't even need as many people because we can do stuff from home and have people do multiple things in their own homes. So jobs are smaller, and people are hiring less or lying with their hiring.

Monique: Yeah. Yeah, I think that's it for now. Thank you for your time!

D'Avion: Yeah, that was fun.